Sorry - missed the picture somehow. Steve
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Here's another DeLuxe with the rear frame supports. Not a 29 like the previous photo BUT....... I know the owner of this one and the rear frame supports were added about ten years ago...... As Perry quite rightly says, just because one exists doesn't make it an original. Personally, I don't think this ought to be in list. After all, people change things for all sorts of reasons - how about the in-line sixes?
No, I think we need to refer to the period literature as a starting point. Maybe not the sales brochures as they were often drawn before production began. But I would think that the parts lists could be taken as pretty accurate. My thoughts about the high frame, tank side clutch/reverse lever and no stud version are based on entries in both the 'DeLuxe Model Only' and the 'Deluxe Model and Sidecars' parts lists which list two different clutch/reverse levers for the high and low frames. There is no mention of the L shaped reverse lever used with the frame stud in either book. So I think it fair to assume that there was a high frame model with no stud. Incidently, if the tank side lever was used for reverse, the clutch pedal would need to be different. Only one clutch pedal listed in the 'Deluxe Model Only' book but that is joined by a 'Clutch Pedal for Machines with Reverse' in the 'Deluxe Model and Sidecars' book. No Dave, I can't point you to a known bike/picture - as I said in my earlier posting, my knowledge and understanding here is based on my interpretation of the literature. But that said, have any of you other readers got a high frame Deluxe without the stud under the saddle? If you have, I for one would like to see a picture.
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The high frame is simply what the factory called the long tank frame in the parts book.
I've only ever seen pictures of one DeLuxe (in Europe) with the rear frame support like a KJ frame. One of something isn't enough to make me a believer. I don't believe any DeLuxes left the factory with a frame like that. There is no mention of it, and it is not illustrated, in the 1929 DeLuxe brochure. I have photos of six different 1929 DeLuxes and none of them have that frame. I think either someone stitched together a KJ rear and a DeLuxe front or maybe it was a factory replacement frame for a DeLuxe produced during the KJ era.
There are lots of variants through the years. One example not mentioned thus far is the casting for the front motor mount and footboard mount. As mentioned the K model just mounted the motor on the frame tube and had a casting for the footboard mount. When the DeLuxe came along castings were added for the motor mounts. Thus in the front we have two castings side by side, motor mount and foootboard mount. At some point after 1923 (I'm pretty sure before the short tank/low saddle frame was introduced) the front motor mount and front footboard mount became a single casting. The problem with trying to pin down when changes occurred is so many of these bikes got mixed up over the years. It's rare to find a bike that is known to have been together its whole life so you can trust the story it is trying to tell you ... Perry
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Steve,
Can you point to a known bike/picture/etc. of the "high frame" you're describing? I have hundreds of photos of Chicago era Hen's my father compiled and I've only observed two primary types of Deluxe frames.
I'm not claiming this to be right, or an expert, that's just what I have personally observed. For what it's worth, my understanding is also based on what I've been told by a few guys I would consider experts. I would appreciate seeing a picture of a frame type I've never seen (ie, the point of this forum is for us to learn new stuff about Hens!).
And we have omitted one additional "variation" of the Deluxe
frame. The late '28's made had a vertical frame stay beneath the seat cross bracket like the KJ's would get. This was a logical revision whereas the rear end on the previous Deluxe frames was a weak spot (they were prone to bend upward, .
Picture of the late '28 frame below (from Google).
-Dave
