From:Ben B e-mail:bbinns@kubota.com.au
Subject:RE: RE: RE: RE: New find, 1923? Henderson chassis Date:Mon Jun 29 18:55:00 2015
Response to:5822
Thanks very much to Steve and Dave for your responses. Unfortunately I don't have a motor yet, but that doesn't put me off as Ive started with less on the Excelsiors before and the parts do eventually turn up.

Just to clarify my frame, it has the following features:
-Motor mount lugs inside the frame (Deluxe)
-Seat bracket bolts through the frame
-1/4" axle adjusters
-two bolt mount for the amp meter bracket
-1/2 pan seat (Messinger No 3???)
-Long Tank
-Reverse lever mount on frame tube below the tank

Could It actually be that the 3 is for 1923? The 4 digit number and the 3 below it are stamped into the frame. I will post photos this evening. It is possible that the single digit year designation was an export or Australian only thing. I can conclusively say that it does apply to the Excelsiors (Big X and Super X) over here (Australia). Whether it applies to Henderson, I haven't had the chance to check out other bikes over here to see.

As an example, here is what it looks like on an Excelsior Big X

----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS -----

Thanks Dave. Just goes to show - we never stop learning! When I looked at the picture I saw the reverse lever stud and didn't look closely at the engine mount area. First time I've seen a frame with a combination of reverse lever on the stud and engine mounted inboard of wider spread tubes! So looks like I need to amend my list of frame versions.
1 Model K: reverse lever on stud + engine bolts thru narrow frame (more in posting 5820)
2 DeLuxe: reverse lever on stud + engine bolts through lugs on wider frame (the frame in question - new to me!)
3 DeLuxe: reverse lever/clutch lever: no stud - referred to as 'High frame' in parts list book
4 DeLuxe: reverse lever/clutch lever: no stud - referred to as 'New Style, Low frame' in parts list book

For anyone interested, parts list book in question is headed DeLuxe Model and Sidecars see posting 1484 for more on dating parts list books.
All great stuff!! Steve

----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS -----
Steve,

Looks like a 22/23/early 24 Deluxe frame to me. I have one. The engine mounts are inside the frame cradle, eg. not Model K.

The four digit number on the frame is likely the casting number for the big casting under the seat.

-Dave

----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS -----

Hi Ben
No, I don't think this is a 23 - more likely to be a 20/21 Model K or 22 Deluxe for the reasons given in response to Dan's query from a few weeks ago (though I'm only just getting round to compiling them so give me half an hour from this post before looking for that one...) I don't think your frame number means much - or it wouldn't if it was here in the UK. As far as I am aware, the factory never used frame numbers around this time. Over here in the UK we need a frame number for vehicle registration so they are stamped into place as and when required - after due inspection and completing the necessary paperwork of course. The number is often the same as the engine number - no doubt giving rise in future years to the suggestion that it is a 'matching numbers' bike....... The number stamped could just as easily be the date of stamping or the owner's birthdate. I've registered bikes over the years with all sorts of 'made up' frame numbers! I guess that as long as the number is unique, it doesn't matter much. Things have been tightened up a little in recent years - last year our licensing authority gave me a very long number (about 20 chars and numbers if I remember correctly) which had to be stamped into a Velocette frame. Hope you have an engine for your frame - you would be well on the way to having a great bike then! Steve
----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS -----
Hi,
I picked this Henderson chassis up the other weekend. New to Henderson but have a number of Big X's from 1915 to 1923 so some of the Henderson chassis parts are familiar. The wheels in it are Excelsior Series 20 that I had already. My question is, is this a 1923 Deluxe Chassis? There is a four digit frame number on the down tube of the head stem, and below that is a single digit 3. In Excelsiors this single digit designates the year of the frame. Is it the same for Henderson? What year did the half pan seat that is on this bike come in? There will be many more questions to come no doubt! Looking for all the missing parts.
Cheers Ben
Melbourne, Australia