From:Steve Ciccalone e-mail:hensteveamc@aol.com
Subject:A Seat for Every ASS(ociate)* Date:Sat Nov 4 14:02:44 2006
Hello Henderson Afficienados,

*Had to beat the "Dirty Word" censor.

I looked through all my catalogs and parts books from the Deluxe/KJ period and noted the following:

The early high frame D's were equipped with a black Troxel Ace seat with a special Henderson/Excelsior logo stamped on the leather skirt area inside the thigh area. The Troxel Ace is in fact the same saddle as used on the Ace except that seat is stamped with a Troxel logo. This is a leather covered (top and bottom) saddle with an internal double spring frame with a plywood platform. The center of the saddle is single ply with three air holes. Interestingly, Howard Heilman had not seen or didn't remember the the "X" logo until I discussed it with him last year and does not have this particular stamp in his collection. It was also used on the 20 Series Big X's.

When the low frame was introduced circa mid-1924, the saddle is referred to as the new larger "bucket seat type". None of the catalogs from 1925 through 1929 list a brand of saddle. The circa 1925/26 parts book clearly shows what appears to be a Messinger short nosed #2 saddle. My 11,000 mile untouched original '26 is equipped with this saddle (in black). Howard once mentioned to me that either brown or black was available although the black seats probably represented only 20% of the sales.

The saddle specification changes in the 1930 KJ/X catalog and refers to either a "suspension type or a bucket type optional". The suspension seat is the half-pan Messinger type 3 also used on Indian 101s and optional on Chiefs through '32/33. The 1928 and up catalogs picture what ressembles a long nosed deep bucket Persons saddle but there is no written reference to it.

Now historically, Persons had a long association with Henderson. In fact, the saddle company was an investor in the original Henderson company and supplied all the standard saddles at least through 1918 and probably 1919. I've never seen what I thought was a Persons saddle originally fit to a K or D Henderson until the KJ debuted. But then really original bikes of this period are exceedingly rare so who's to say for sure.

So what does this all mean. In MHO, if a KJ shows up for judging with either a Messinger 2, 3 or Persons saddle all are good and any of them are correct. Saddles were undoubtedly like tires, any brand or type would be provided to the buyer on request and should be accepted without arguement. The key is to have the proper bridge wire saddle straps for the particular saddle so the geometry of the saddle and yoke/springs appear as original. The later Deluxes probably all used the Messinger 2 short nose full pan as standard but I don't think I'd throw rocks at a Persons if one appeared.

Tom W is right on in his observation that the nuts fitted to the pan backs were for an accessory back rest. I have a original script Messinger back rest that lines up with the short nosed full pans.

With winter approaching and riding season over for most of us, we can sit on this subject comfortably until spring.

Dr. Marty, anything you want to do with seats is fine as long as you don't paint the wheels black.